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Batman v. Superman


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#21 joeldalley

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 08:54 PM

This.......appears to be considerably less earnest in nature than BvS.  It also has Harley Quinn with a giant mallet, which is always good fun.

 

I'm optimistic. I'm already a fan of this "Marilyn Manson" Joker.



#22 J.C.

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 11:30 PM

I could do without the "Damaged" tattoo on his forehead, but Leto's portrayal seems fine to me; a little more slender and androgynous than previous versions.



#23 Action Boy!

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 03:32 PM

This film was shockingly bad. I didn't expect much to begin with because I'm pretty sure Zack Snyder's intentions for directing Man of Steel was to make it clear to everyone that he had no business directing Man of Steel. But I went in open minded hoping to be proven wrong, and I was actually shocked by the level of which this movie fails. From character, to storytelling, to filmmaking, to simple logic; this film was a disaster to me. 



#24 The Crawling KingSnake

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 02:25 PM

This film was shockingly bad. I didn't expect much to begin with because I'm pretty sure Zack Snyder's intentions for directing Man of Steel was to make it clear to everyone that he had no business directing Man of Steel. But I went in open minded hoping to be proven wrong, and I was actually shocked by the level of which this movie fails. From character, to storytelling, to filmmaking, to simple logic; this film was a disaster to me. 

 

The fact that they didn't have the old school Superman theme song in the original film pissed me off.  Even though it doesn't quite work with this Superman adaptation... I still wanted to hear it.



#25 J.C.

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 11:19 PM

They used the original John Williams theme in Superman Returns in 2006, and a ton of people complained that Bryan Singer was just trading on nostalgia, and not putting his own stamp on the material.  So filmmakers are pretty much damned if they do, damned if they don't, in that regard.



#26 spastic.jerk

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 08:46 PM

DC can eat a giant bag of dicks - seriously.  This was offensively bad to long time fans and hardcore nerds, but I don't tread that road although I run with the crowd - normally.  This even managed to piss me off though.  Batman's suit was an absolute rape of the source material, I didn't care about any of the main characters and just like with MoS the CGI was absolute garbage.  How the hell did they not come up with something better than this?  Oh yeah, they gave Snyder cart-blanche. Really beginning to get a sour taste in my mouth when people mention him and the absurdity of the Suicide Squad trailer (Will Smith?  Really?  Really?) is so beyond nauseating it's hard to put into words.  Marvel may operate by a standard set of contrivances but they seem to be learning as they go along, Ant Man and Deadpool are both good off the beaten path characters who deserved films.  Why DC can't pull their head out of their own ass and just let Affleck direct a Batman film is beyond me.  He seems to get the character, and really get into it - but there was no excusing how much this just decimated the many many places it picked and stole, er I mean made homages to...  Honestly DC's comics are even worse these days.  They castrated Wonder Woman's story to make it all male-centric for the upcoming films and I hardly recognize the psychotic Batman or complex thoughtful Superman of today so likely not their market.  For the record though, I gave this a real shot - haven't been so let down with a comic film since the Batman Rises (breaking the Batman and Bane are absolute no go's with me - terribly written source material that just can't be improved on).  I grew up with the Reeve Superman films and while the first one is still watchable for nostalgia's sake, I'm going to come out and say it - you can't make a good Superman movie.  He's like God - what's he going to get into a fist fight with Jesus?  Would have been happy with some eye candy as opposed to this as it didn't look that cool either imho.

Solid ass 1.5-2/10, this is like Manos bad.  :facepalm:



#27 J.C.

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Posted 16 April 2016 - 12:42 AM

Affleck will be directing a Batman film.  He's already submitted a script that Geoff Johns is working on.  It'll probably be released in 2018.  If you're talking about his regular Batman suit, and not the metal armor, how exactly was it a "rape" (do we really need to use such terms to make our point?) of the source material?  Seems to me it looks closer to its comic counterpart than any previous live-action film version.

 

They need some stars in the mix in order to sell a lesser-known property like Suicide Squad to mainstream audiences.  Is anyone really that precious about the Deadshot character?

 

Anyways, though I agree that the film is very flawed, comments like "They didn't tell a compelling story drawing from source material that is terrible to begin with.  HOW DARE THEY!" are always good for a laugh.  So thank you for that. :lol:


Edited by J.C., 16 April 2016 - 01:26 AM.


#28 spastic.jerk

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Posted 16 April 2016 - 01:58 AM

They drew that suit from Dark Knight Returns perhaps one of the 10 most important Batman stories ever told and classically heralded as one of the greatest graphic novels of all time.  I don't care how close it looks to the original art.  To turn that brilliant source material into mindless and meaningless pablum where you castrate the complete meaning of it and instead convert it to this kind of pandering drivel - lets be honest, a Batman Superman fight is over before it starts, either Batman drops him with a Kryptonite sneak attack/trap/etc or Superman literally beats Batman into a pile of goo - is awful, and I apologize if the rape comment came off rude, but it's a non-consensual assault on the original material imho so although not sexual it seemed apt at the time, again sorry if you or anyone else was offended not my intent and was a perhaps a bad choice of words if descriptive in ways that I saw fitting.

And oh yeah, big Deadshot fan right here.  Also love Deathstroke (who they continue to mangle in the video games and TV shows where he appears) and a ton of other B/C list comics characters; The Question, Elongated Man, could go on for days with people you'll probably never hear about.  When you read as many comics as I have you kind of get tired of another Spider-Man or Batman story, and who the hell really cares what Wonder Woman has been up to since Perez and Johns left the series?  Azzarello just mutilated her long standing feminist background and actually managed to change her to a male power dominated character, I mean she was a dominatrix in disguise from the 30's until 2015 I just don't get it. 

And for the record, the "bad source material" I'm talking about is the current New 52 and other stuff retconning all of the original material that's got so much gold in it, there's tons of great stuff to pull from - but you won't be seeing Superman For All Seasons, Whatever Happened To The Man of Tomorrow or even the really well done arcs that have come in the past few years on Adventure with Braniac or anything before the "reboot".  And that to me is a shame, and it makes stuff like Suicide Squad kind of offensively bad - I mean Suicide Squad was a fav or mine growing up.  Batman at the helm of all these loosed mad men on free reign to murder at the government's behest?  12 year old me was so down with that.  And then people started to really develop Deadshot, turn him into a person - same with Deathstroke. But Harley Quinn, man is that a strange can of worms for me.  She came from the cartoon and moved to the comics, now they play her up like some sort of battered spouse against the Joker, like some sort of sick parody of the character she was originally.  Now this may not lay all lay at the feet of the film, lets be honest I'd rather see Batman V Superman 10 times in a row than sit through Green Lantern one more time, but if a stunt almost causes a company to go broke (Spider-Man being a clone, Superman dying, or Batman getting his back broken) and are literally listed as the worst ideas in a 75+ year tradition it's probably a bad idea to adapt them to film.  Why do it when you have access to much better stuff?  Why set up a Robin that can never be?  Why the idiotic ending with Bruce riding happily off into the sunset having done away with The Batman persona? Snyder needs to wake up at the wheel here, he's in charge of a crumbling franchise that's scrambling to recover over and over again and this is the best he came up with?  Yeah, sorry doing a goof-ball take on a few classic stories, chucking them in a blender and hitting crappe is lazy and stupid.  Mostly just stupid though, like the movie.  Can't judge a book by its cover so I don't know about Suicide Squad yet, but I didn't bat an eye with Affleck was announced, stuck up for him - Smith is not Deadshot, through and through he's like the anti-Deadshot.  Glad I could amuse you with my idiotic nerd rage though, it dribbles over now and again... :D



#29 J.C.

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Posted 16 April 2016 - 09:36 PM

It's all good, man. :lol:

 

Though I'm familiar with a few of the key Batman comics (Year One, The Dark Knight Returns, The Killing Joke), the Animated Series from the early '90s, a number of the animated direct-to-DVD features (Mask of the Phantasm, Under The Red Hood, Return of the Joker, etc.) and, of course, the live-action films, I don't have such a vested interest in the comics that I particularly care where they draw from.  Plenty of good movies have been made from lesser material, and plenty of bad movies have been made from acclaimed works, so I just take these films on a case-by-case basis.  I'm interested in the iconography of Batman and his Rogues Gallery, and I'm very open to different interpretations.

 

Though I can understand, and empathize with, many of the complaints that people level against BvS, I didn't have nearly as bad an experience with the film as some folks.  I thought it was "OK".  It has its moments (opening disaster sequence was well executed, Affleck's performance was spot-on, some nice cinematography (the non-CGI enhanced variety), Batman fighting with speed and agility for once!).  I recognize, however, that cramming multiple well-known stories together into a film is a haphazard approach, and given how many viewers respond negatively to Snyder and his work, I would also prefer they have other directors working on the DC films.  There's still, I suppose, an outside chance that he gets taken off Justice League (which I don't care about much anyways, because I'm not really interested in the other DC heroes...not my cup of tea).

 

Anyways, David Ayer (End of Watch, Fury) co-wrote and directed Suicide Squad, and it looks fun and stylish to me, so we'll see how that turns out.  Patty Jenkins (Monster, with Charlize Theron) is directing the Wonder Woman movie.  James Wan is on Aquaman.  Affleck will probably be directing that solo Batman film, which could theoretically be a prequel to BvS (perhaps showing what Joker did to Jason Todd and/or Barbara Gordon).

 

I don't generally have as extreme a reaction to this stuff as some folks, on either the positive or negative side.  Some people may think BvS is terrible while Civil War is fantastic; I'm more likely to find BvS "OK" and Civil War (if it proves to be one of the top few Marvel films) "good-bordering-very-good".  And so it goes.



#30 spastic.jerk

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 07:14 PM

Yeah I totally get people who don't care about the source material or characters won't be offended by this, but really it's like taking Shakespeare and making soap operas or something to me.  I am vehemently opposed to destroying source material and don't get the "combo these stories" idea of DC films.  Marvel is more into interpretation, DC just randomly does sh*t and puts certain characters in costumes to sell tickets.  Marvel at least has taken chances on stuff like Deadpool which is very accurate to the childish prurient character (aside from the love angle) and I'm not opposed to "translations" or "interpretations" but I do take it kind of personally when they seem to intentionally destroy and gut the meaning of the characters/story and cannibalize it for a crap fest like BvS.  DCs animated stuff owns, Marvel's sucks - DCs live actions suck (I can think of 2 that are passable for a comic freak) and Marvel's live actions are pretty darned reliable and consistent if a bit cookie cutter like.  I think Suicide Squad already has one foot planted in the grave because of character choices, but that may just be the knee jerk Uncle Jerk reaction to Harley Quinn and the Joker (Leto looks absolutely atrocious and the tattoos are just mind bogglingly stupid) but you can't judge a book by the cover or a movie by the trailer so we will see.  And for the record, I hated Dark Knight and Rises so I've been checked out of that camp for a long while (yeah Ledger was genius as The Joker but they should have killed him like in the source material - the same as the power suit in fact - and split that behemoth into two parts introducing Two Face in another film rather than shoehorning him into nowheresville.)  Snyder should take some time off to get his head straight imho but no way they are pulling him from Justice League unfortunately.  Have high hopes for Aquaman though, no one cares about the character so less stuff they "have" to play up and more wiggle room to make him work for film rather than translate a god mythos to the screen ie Superman/Batman, a lot like Ant Man actually.  Far from perfect but not to many people were as outraged by the weird changes made as they weren't vested in decades of per-ordained story and characterization.
In the meantime I'll go listen to Ryan Reynolds make dick jokes for a few more hours in his tight red underoos - it's not high art, but it's damned close to the comic and probably the measuring stick I'll hold any other comic films against for a long while .



#31 J.C.

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 10:46 PM

It's not that I don't care about the source material...I'm just OK with directors putting their own unique stamp on the material, even if I'm often not happy with the results.  The comics aren't going anywhere, after all, and it's a different medium.  Plus, it's not like many of the comic book stories, in their original format, are totally unassailable.  

 

I've only truly enjoyed four of the Disney-Marvel films (Avengers 1 and 2, Iron Man, and Winter Soldier).  The rest, I'd put in the mediocre-to-OK range.  Too formulaic.  Little in the way of visual distinctiveness.  More emphasis on the interlocking universe than the actual quality of individual films.  Mostly forgettable villains.  That said, I'm fairly confident that Civil War will be the fifth film I add to the "good" list; it seems like an effective hybrid of Winter Soldier and The Avengers, and I've heard good things.

 

Re: Deadpool, I thought it was quite funny, but I'd be hard-pressed to actually quote any lines from it afterwards, and the actual story, despite the meta commentary, is pretty conventional, with a generic, unmemorable villain.  I also didn't like the way much of the vehicular action was shot -- too choppy -- but I find that with most action films these days.  Still, Reynolds was perfectly cast in the lead role, and I can understand its appeal:  I did enjoy it, overall, and I hope the filmmakers didn't use up all of their best (funny in the moment, for me) material in the first one, with only scraps remaining for the sequel.  We shall see.  


Edited by J.C., 22 April 2016 - 10:49 PM.


#32 billdore

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 07:14 AM

Swap Avengers 2 with Thor 1 and I'm on board with your Marvel list.  :P



#33 J.C.

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:49 PM

AoU certainly has its issues, but I think both Thor films have very little going for them.



#34 billdore

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 08:33 AM

Finally saw this.  As someone who never read the comics...

 

I didn't think it was nearly as bad as all the original press.  Affleck is great as both Batman and Wayne; this dual-role seems to be difficult to pull off in these kinds of films.  The 'out of the closet' non-secret-identity heroes seem to have it easy in this regard (Hugh Jackman had to worry about only being Wolverine, not some alter ego, in addition to that, right?).  Cavill still doesn't pull it off.  Clearly Andrew Garfiled failed at this, too, on the Marvel side of things.  I enjoyed Affleck's world-weary, middle-aged portrayal here--just sick of all the shit by now, ya know? Through that lens, starting with the opening sequence (which I didn't realize from the trailers what it was meant to be), this really made me side with the film as a Batman film (and by extension I was way more sympathetic with his character than Superman here--unlike in Civil War where it's pretty reasonable to flip-flop your opinion of things as you watch it), and maybe a cheap-shot way for Snyder to get in on Batman property (kind of a Luthor-like end run around some sort of middle-man)--the ending clearly solidifies this, too, even though in the final battle Batman did relatively little (what could he do, anyway, I suppose?). 

 

Regardless, I was glad to the Cavill Superman knocked around a bit.  The portrayal, whether directed to be this way, written to be this way, or it's Cavill's "take" on the character, just rubs me the wrong way--Superman is a such and arrogant hot-head here.  No wonder everyone is scared of him--Bruce's dream of God Superman with his minions seems a reasonable future if Kal-el can't just meditate a little.

 

And I don't know much about Wonder Woman, besides what I learned as a kid watching the Justice League cartoons on Saturday mornings.  :)  So, is she basically invicible or what? She shows up and is eye-lasered at, tossed around, and everything and just seems to take it all pretty much without a scratch.  LOL, couldn't she have just stepped in sooner--she seems to pretty much be the most powerful hero in this film.  That complaint, as well as the portrayal of Lex (which everyone has already talked about), are probably my two biggest issues.



#35 macwacky

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 11:22 AM

I like the first Thor

#36 J.C.

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 06:19 PM

billdore, I'm told the extended cut of the film (30 minutes longer) fleshes out Superman's side of things (his investigation into Batman's near-fatal attacks on criminals, and the effects on their families) more, rendering him less of a dick from the viewer's side of things.  It also clarifies just how Lex manipulated the events in Africa, and why people with the Bat-brand are being killed in prison. 

 

Because I've got some free on-demand movies coming to me (my cable box malfunctioned a while back), and seeing as I can borrow the DVDs of most mainstream movies from my public library (but don't have a Blu-Ray player right now), I'd planned to give that (apparently superior) cut (not available on DVD, only BR) a look.  The Ultimate Edition (with the extended and theatrical cut) has been available for (digital) purchase since June 30, but the rental version was supposed to be yesterday.  Alas, my provider only has the theatrical cut listed for rent.  By limiting it to that, they're just gonna compel people to download it illegally.  Oh well, oh well.  Oh well.

 

Anyways, as I noted a few months ago, I thought it was "OK", though it was probably misguided to try to deconstruct the mythos when you're looking to launch a superhero teamup.  That's the sort of thing you do after you've already told the traditional stories in a "cinematic universe".  Regardless, plenty of mainstream blockbusters have opened since then and gotten worse reviews.  And even many of the haters are still optimistic about a solo Batfleck film.


Edited by J.C., 20 July 2016 - 06:23 PM.


#37 lindapoirier

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 11:54 PM

I just bought this for $10 (more thsn my minimum wage). I sm watching right now.

" I grew up on a farm. I know how to wrestle a pig."

Quite possibly the best line ever spoken!!




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