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#41 madbabyruthless

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 08:34 AM

that was a really heartfelt and well thought out post lusty. I think out of all of JW's bands The Dead Weather speaks to me the most, I think part of that is because The Kills speak to me alot too. I think its the raw undiluted passion and energy as well as the heaviness of the band that makes me love them so much i don't need to exist. I was blessed enough to see them twice, once on July 18th 2009 and again on July 14th of this year ( the one year anniversary of the release of Horehound in the US) and lucky enough to actually high five both Jack and Alison who are both heroes and a major source on inspiration to me. In todays world there are so few tough, talented, individuals whom I can look up to. Thankfully I have found 2 of them Jack and Alison, you guys inspire me to be me and not let anyone tell me any different every day.

#42 dbmtb

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 04:46 PM

Great as they were, I won't miss the Dead Weather as much as I've been missing the Kills.

#43 kts1997

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 04:56 PM

OOHHHHHH I miss The Kills.

TDW too, but man, The Kills :wub: .

#44 lordaishamort

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 04:11 PM

Wow. I cant believe I am just finding this thread now. I love the DW like no bodies business and I am going to miss them so much. I remember being in Vancouver when they were playing there and having to walk by the Commodore Ballroom and hear them playing. I was too young to go in and it was horrible to have to hear them behind locked doors :( I did get my chance though a year later (after begging my parents profusely) to see them in Minneapolis. No words can explain what I felt that night. I dont think a band has ever blown me away as much as they did and to see them right in front of me was just...wow. I couldnt believe Jack, Alison, LJ and Dean were right fucking in front of me. That was my first time Id seen anyone of of them live and it wont be the last. I know they will get back together we just gotta wait. :wub:

And I completely agree with everything madbabyruthless has said.

Also. New Kills album kthx.

#45 Aquamarine

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:06 PM

They were fucking in front of you?? :o. I say . . . :unsure:




;)

#46 lordaishamort

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:20 PM

:lol: !!!

Well not literally

not that I would complain but ya know :ph34r:

Edited by lordaishamort, 05 December 2010 - 10:23 PM.


#47 Kali Durga

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 09:27 AM

Four months down the road, I can't decide quite how much I miss the DW. I'm sitting here listening to the No Hassle Night/Just Want To Make Love To You jam and my mind's rambling a bit. Bear with me.

It strikes me that in the White Stripes, the box Jack imposed for the band affected him mostly in the studio. Once onstage, he was unleashed to take the songs he'd created within that box and do whatever the hell he wanted to with them. And Meg could read his intentions and keep up with him no matter what he did. The result was things like the slow versions of Fell In Love With a Girl and Stop Breaking Down, Big Three Killed My Baby on piano, and the Ten Nights of Denial Twist.

The Dead Weather, as a collective entity, seemed to be at their most inventive and impulsive in the studio. They talked in so many interviews about how they didn't stop to think of who was going to play what, about swapping instruments, about things like Cut Like a Buffalo and Old Mary being totally off-the-cuff, spur of the moment inspiration. And Horehound, Sea of Cowards, and the cover songs they recorded fully reflect this.

In comparison to that, though, it seems they actually became fairly structured onstage-- Despite how explosive this band could be, it doesn't seem that there was a ton of variety in the setlists, and really not much variety that I can hear in how they performed the songs on that list. Being behind the drums and having to communicate with three other people was a different kind of box for Jack, and performances like NHN/JWTMLTY seem to have occurred only when he couldn't contain himself any longer and had to break out. I listen to him moving restlessly from guitar to keyboard, wailing out those Muddy Waters lyrics, back to guitar, keys, then finally back to drums, and it seems as if he was feeling the old White Stripes urges that night and the rest of the band was forced to try to do what Meg could do with such seeming ease. Bless 'em, they did a pretty amazing job of keeping up with him. And I can't help but wish they could have figured out some way to break out of the box onstage and do so much more of this sort of thing.

Listening to this jam just makes me feel that there was so much unrealized potential in this band. That performance was from 2009 and in 2010 it seems Jack indulged his need to break out of the box with champagne-fueled rants instead of with jams. Sure, that's rock'n'roll, but it seems that this talented group of musicians came so close to letting antics override the music there towards the end. If/when they re-group, I would hope that energy could be re-directed in the inspired, productive direction it headed that night in Pomona.

#48 ymagirl

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 11:56 AM

The Dead Weather, as a collective entity, seemed to be at their most inventive and impulsive in the studio. They talked in so many interviews about how they didn't stop to think of who was going to play what, about swapping instruments, about things like Cut Like a Buffalo and Old Mary being totally off-the-cuff, spur of the moment inspiration. And Horehound, Sea of Cowards, and the cover songs they recorded fully reflect this.

In comparison to that, though, it seems they actually became fairly structured onstage-- Despite how explosive this band could be, it doesn't seem that there was a ton of variety in the setlists, and really not much variety that I can hear in how they performed the songs on that list.


After seeing their live shows the times that I have, I would have to say I respectfully disagree with this. Although their set lists may not/ couldn't have varied as much as the Stripes from show to show (fewer song choice availability?), their live performances of those songs were all fairly different in their own way- especially if you saw back-to-back shows. I'd agree there's definitely structure to how they perform "Will There Be Enough Water" and "60 Feet Tall", but I wouldn't say they are the same from show to show. Compared to their studio recordings, I'd have to say their live performances are really what blow them out of the water and would sell someone who is not a current fan on this band. However, for those of you who have not been fortunate enough to see them in concert I would also like to add that, in my opinion, the Sea of Cowards Live at Third Man Records is not the best "live" representation of the band... although it's probably the best performance of "Looking at the Invisible Man" that I've seen to date.

#49 Kali Durga

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 05:43 PM

I have seen them live. Probably not as many times as you have and not back-to-back nights, but I was at four shows this spring/summer. And I've watched a pretty substantial number of live videos, for what that's worth. I know there were plenty of nights when he came out from behind the drums and surprised both the audience and his bandmates. But I don't think there were enough of those nights. If you objectively compare the WS to the DW, I don't think it's possible to say that Jack had as much freedom to vary song structures with this band as he did with Meg. There's no denying that the DW's live performances are dynamic and powerfully energetic, but they seem to rarely have been as wildly, crazily inventive as a Stripes show. That's not necessarily a bad thing depending on what you want from a show, but knowing what Jack's capable of pulling out of that gyroscope brain of his... it just makes me wonder how many more things like NHN/JWTMLTY we could have seen from them.

#50 hannibal_lusty

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 06:26 PM

But the freedom of the White Stripes exists to balance out what's missing in terms of the richness of sound. There's so little going on in a White Stripes song that without Jack's spur of the moment messing around it would be very underwhelming live. The Dead Weather may have not had the same obvious unpredictability in terms of changing songs and mixing things up but they were just as creative. I think the difference is that the Stripes made their set one big jam whereas the improvisation of the Dead Weather was confined to each song. Almost all the songs featured Jack and Dean doing some kind of improvised solo. Bits were often extended and expanded upon. At least half of the songs played at the concert I attended was played around with and I don't think that's much less than a standard WS show. The WS may give Jack more freedom but what makes the Dead Weather special is that they manage to be just as surprising and special with four people, which is much more impressive feat.

As for the drunken antics... I'm really not show whether that was a liberating or damaging moment for the band. Maybe we'll never know.

#51 Aquamarine

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 07:55 PM

Hmm--I think the fact that there's so little going on in a White Stripes song is exactly what gave them their power. Like the blues. So whether Jack had improvised on them or not, I don't think they would be underwhelming.

#52 Kali Durga

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 07:59 PM

Yeah, I don't quite get that, either. There's too much intensity in their music.


Though, hmmmm... Saying that makes it sound as if I'm contradicting what I said above. But my point had more to do with the constraints on Jack in each band. I just wanted more jams from the DW, that's what it comes down to. That's what I miss about the DW the most, I think-- the things that they potentially could have done.

Edited by Kali Durga, 12 December 2010 - 08:04 PM.


#53 CaseOfThePunks

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 07:15 PM

Kali Durga knows what she is talking about. What makes the White Stripes so damn special live is their unpredictability. Sure, the first four songs are usually consistent but after that it is fair game. I remember seeing them in Atlanta and Jack's guitar goes on the fritz during Ball and Biscuit, so he moseys on over to his little keyboard and bangs out the rest of the song with as much fire and intensity as he does on his candy colored geetar. With the White Stripes there is no safety net. Jack goes wherever his little whims take him and we watch breathlessly to see what will happen next.

This is not the case with the Dead Weather. I only saw one Dead Weather show and I was struck by how calculated everything seemed and it wasn't just because they used the same setlist every night. Their whole look, sound, and demeanor was intended to convey this badass rock star "don't fuck with us" "ooh look at the sexual tension" cool. I'm not saying Jack is not effortlessly cool because I totally think he is, which made this whole sneering, badass persona thing totally unnecessary. They were so absorbed in the "cool" that it almost became parody. I have said this before, but Alison actually made me laugh when she came to the edge of the stage and gave us the wide-eyed, look how scary I am glare. Some people may think the Mosshart persona is intense and feral, but to me it smacks of trying way too hard. Afterwards, she attempted to do this snaky, sexy catwalk thing across the stage with her microphone and tripped, which elicited more laughs from me. The songs all had the same attitude and same heaviness. There was nothing that really reached out and grabbed me it just all seemed to blend together. The only nice change of pace was Cut Like a Buffalo , You Just Can't Win, and Will There Be Enough Water. No it is not because Jack is center stage during these songs, but because they actually provided some variety. Though yes I do think Jack has way more charisma and intensity than Mosshart.

To me what sets White Stripes apart from the Dead Weather, other than their unpredictable live shows, is their heart and sincere, raw emotional intensity. Not to mention a lot of their songs actually express joy and sound joyous as opposed to "look how tough and badass I am" heaviness.

Out of the side bands, The Dead Weather rock way harder and their music is preferable to the Raconteurs, but I'd rather see the Racs fraternal camaraderie and playfulness than the Dead Weather's contrived darkness.

#54 hannibal_lusty

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 12:57 AM

I entirely disagree but that is a very reasonable argument. But I think you could make the exact same argument for the Stripes' whole innocence routine, the brother and sister thing etc. I can think of many White Stripes' moments that are just as contrived, by your definition but I don't have a problem with them because I accept that much of it is theatre. Remember that whole stink when Jack said Bob Dylan wasn't authentic, he was write on the money, because good music and performance has nothing to do with authenticity and Jack knows that better than anyone else. The Dead Weather seem to be a bunch of friends just playing music but onstage they take on dark personas to add a whole layer of flair to their performances and I think they're good at it, and, because this is Jack's forte, they seem to believe it themselves for the time that they are in front of an audience.

#55 CaseOfThePunks

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 01:48 AM

The Dead Weather's persona is cliched and played out. The White Stripes' isn't. :) How many dark,angsty, and leather jacket wearing bands trying to be badasses do we have out there? How many do we have that try to be sweet, playful, and innocent? I'd say the former is far more common. I know The White Stripes have an act too, but theirs seems to come from a pure place. They aren't trying to be as cool as humanly possible.

#56 ymagirl

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 01:33 PM

Great discussion going here~
Kali, I certainly wasn't trying to instigate a "I've seen TDW more than you"-type situation. What I said was directed more to those who might be reading this thread & haven't seen TDW live. I know you've seen them live, which is why I'm somewhat surprised by what you had to say. I just hear so much perfection in TDW, I don't see how you can ponder their "unrealized potential"- it's almost like saying "I miss what da Vinci could have painted".
Hannibal, I'm totally with you on the point that showcasing four people on stage and conveying each of their talents in a unique & fair way is special/unusual in a multiple-person band set up. Usually someone ends up getting the shaft, and I've never seen that happen in a DW show. Believe me, if he wanted to steal the show with his "White Stripes antics" and blow everyone out of the building with his awesomeness, he could do it... and his fellow bandmates would certainly be able to follow his cue/keep up/ go with the flow/ whatever. But that's just it, TDW isn't all about Jack and he knows that. He's playing with three other uber talented folks, and he's not afraid to sit back and let people see that. Let's face it, probably 80% of Dead Weather concert attendees are expecting some type of Jack White/White Stripes experience- he is the draw. The fact that TDW are able to claim converts by the end of their shows rather than pissing a bunch of people off is a major feat.
I don't see TDW as "calculated bad-ass" in their performances, or representing a "played out cliche". I actually take it all as very tongue-in-cheek. Presentation is key and Jack knows that, too. Does the "darkness" they're presenting or Jack's "drunken rants" remind one of an indulgent '80's hair metal band? sure. Maybe they're all just playing out a rock-n-roll fantasy.
One thing I'm fairly certain of is that Jack White knows exactly what he's doing- you either get it, love it and ride the ride, or you don't and you sit back and wait for his next move. And there will always be a next move because he can't stay in one genre for too long. The White Stripes will be back in good time and when it's meant to happen. Until then I am happy to listen to whatever other side of himself he'd like to share with us all, or what he's inspired to create by the other people he's surrounded himself by. And I'm certainly not going to sit around and critique him for what he should have brought to the table when I'm just happy he's coming to the table at all.

#57 Whazup

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 04:32 PM

I personally like TDW the most out of the three Jack White bands. Alison is a great singer with a soulful bluesy voice, and the rest of band can throw down a great groove. I don't really get why people call their persona cliche, if you have seen them live you know that they just go onstage and rock- nothing cliche about that.

I love the White Stripes, but I cannot wait until TDW do some more stuff together.

#58 whitestripesman

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 04:41 PM

Kali Durga knows what she is talking about. What makes the White Stripes so damn special live is their unpredictability. Sure, the first four songs are usually consistent but after that it is fair game. I remember seeing them in Atlanta and Jack's guitar goes on the fritz during Ball and Biscuit, so he moseys on over to his little keyboard and bangs out the rest of the song with as much fire and intensity as he does on his candy colored geetar. With the White Stripes there is no safety net. Jack goes wherever his little whims take him and we watch breathlessly to see what will happen next.

This is not the case with the Dead Weather. I only saw one Dead Weather show and I was struck by how calculated everything seemed and it wasn't just because they used the same setlist every night. Their whole look, sound, and demeanor was intended to convey this badass rock star "don't fuck with us" "ooh look at the sexual tension" cool. I'm not saying Jack is not effortlessly cool because I totally think he is, which made this whole sneering, badass persona thing totally unnecessary. They were so absorbed in the "cool" that it almost became parody. I have said this before, but Alison actually made me laugh when she came to the edge of the stage and gave us the wide-eyed, look how scary I am glare. Some people may think the Mosshart persona is intense and feral, but to me it smacks of trying way too hard. Afterwards, she attempted to do this snaky, sexy catwalk thing across the stage with her microphone and tripped, which elicited more laughs from me. The songs all had the same attitude and same heaviness. There was nothing that really reached out and grabbed me it just all seemed to blend together. The only nice change of pace was Cut Like a Buffalo , You Just Can't Win, and Will There Be Enough Water. No it is not because Jack is center stage during these songs, but because they actually provided some variety. Though yes I do think Jack has way more charisma and intensity than Mosshart.

To me what sets White Stripes apart from the Dead Weather, other than their unpredictable live shows, is their heart and sincere, raw emotional intensity. Not to mention a lot of their songs actually express joy and sound joyous as opposed to "look how tough and badass I am" heaviness.

Out of the side bands, The Dead Weather rock way harder and their music is preferable to the Raconteurs, but I'd rather see the Racs fraternal camaraderie and playfulness than the Dead Weather's contrived darkness.

I remember the Atlanta show!!!

#59 hannibal_lusty

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 08:02 AM

I think the Dead Weather transcended the Jack White draw, at least at times. At the show I went to there were people who didn't like the White Stripes, people who didn't like the Kills and people who didn't like both. Everyone knew the words to Cut Like A Buffalo, Treat Me Like Your Mother and 60 Ft. Tall. People were there to see The Dead Weather and nothing else.

#60 dazed22

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 06:02 AM

I think the Dead Weather transcended the Jack White draw, at least at times. At the show I went to there were people who didn't like the White Stripes, people who didn't like the Kills and people who didn't like both. Everyone knew the words to Cut Like A Buffalo, Treat Me Like Your Mother and 60 Ft. Tall. People were there to see The Dead Weather and nothing else.


From my perspective when I saw em it seemed like everyone (well of course not EVERYONE but most people) were there to see Jack. The point when the crowd got moat excited was when Jack jumped on the guitar.

Don't get me wrong, I think tdw are fantastic but Allison does annoy me. She tries too hard. I can't see what Jack does and although its his opinion I hated when he used to go on and on about how good she is and her charisma... she's nothing special and if anything a tiresome one trick pony.

Maybe I'm being too harsh because I really do like tdw... maybe even more so than the racs. But I do agree w someone's comment that I prefer the real fun camaraderie between the racs.




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