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STAR WARS!

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#1 imbenurnot

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 12:35 PM

So...who is going to see Star Wars sometime? I'm going Friday morning, because the internet is simply not a safe enough space to last much longer. But since we don't have a new movie to talk about yet, there are still six other movies to talk about. Well, three movies and three "movies," but of course opinions vary. For example, for some reason my wife puts Empire last. Out of all six, because it's too depressing apparently. Oh well, nobody's perfect.

Has anybody else done any re-watching? This weekend a friend of mine watched episodes 3 to 6. Really, episode is not any better than 1 or 2. It is filled with scenes of people sitting around and talking about the plot without anything else relevant happening. There's an entire wookie battle going on as pure window dressing. The only relevance to any of our characters is "Yoda doesn't die here." That's it. The whole movies goes that way. There are "action scenes," but they're not important to anything at all. Ugh. Beyond the writing still being terrible, every aspect of its filmaking is just as broken as the previous movies.


Edited by imbenurnot, 16 December 2015 - 12:36 PM.


#2 Kali Durga

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 01:25 PM

I'm still convinced that George Lucas was both the best and worst thing about the original six films. His ideas were brilliant, but I think that the films were so clear in his own mind that he left out vital plot elements that made the films come off half-baked in many cases just because he didn't realize what was on the screen wouldn't be clear to the audience.  Reading the novels about the films are what made me a big fan because, by and large, I totally understood and agreed with how the writers filled in the blanks that Lucas left. 



#3 joeldalley

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 03:30 PM

I posted about this earlier today:

This is pure speculation, based on nothing whatsoever. But I think the
Star Wars movie coming out will follow all the same beats as the
original 1977 movie. The analogy here is that Jurassic World is to
Jurassic Park as the new Star Wars movie is to the original. Updated
details, obviously, but structurally and tonally the same movie; a
"reboot" rather than a remake, in other words.

So... while it's impossible for this to be a "spoiler" because I literally know nothing about the movie, in a sense it kind of is a spoiler, because I'm probably right. In yet another sense, it's impossible to "spoil" this movie, because don't we all know this--that it will be, beat-for-beat, a reboot of the original? Everybody knows the story already.



#4 J.C.

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 04:48 PM

It'll probably ape Episode 4 beat-for-beat, and then Rian Johnson will (hopefully) be permitted a little creative leeway with the next installment.

 

That said, The Force Awakens will be a big crowd-pleaser, that will re-establish a familiar baseline for the fans.  I've never been a huge Star Wars fan (though I do quite like The Empire Strikes Back), but I'm glad that those who are seem to be getting just what they want, to wash the taste of the prequels out of their mouths.

 

I'd planned to see it on Cheap Tuesday (in 2D, preferably), but might bite the bullet and buy an AVX 3D ticket (with reserved seating) before then just so I don't have to stand in line.



#5 imbenurnot

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 07:30 PM

Joel,

I'm not sure if that really counts as much of a criticism of Star Wars, though. I mean, the movies are basically Hero's Journey 101. It's the fun around that spine which makes it fun. I'm okay if the new movie just fits new fun around that same spine.



#6 joeldalley

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 08:33 PM

Well... sort of. This wasn't the case for the first prequel. It didn't have to be the case for Jurassic World. They could have gone another way. And I might be wrong about the new Star Wars. It's purely a guess. A very safe guess, to be sure. And I'm okay with it if it's a reboot of the original series. The original Star Wars movie is the only one I really like. Empire is okay, too. But really, for me, it's just the first one. So if this is like that, then great. Nothing wrong with that. My point isn't to be critical, but more just to say, in response to all the concern about spoilers, is that this movie can't be spoiled, because most likely it's a repeat of the first movie. We all already know the plot. I would prefer to be wrong.



#7 J.C.

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 11:23 PM

...His ideas were brilliant, but I think that the films were so clear in his own mind that he left out vital plot elements that made the films come off half-baked in many cases just because he didn't realize what was on the screen wouldn't be clear to the audience.

 

Interesting.  I always thought that the more he explained the premise (primarily with all that political exposition in the prequels), the less charm the films had.  In other words, I'd rather they allow for some gaps in the narrative if it means we mostly get fun interactions from the (original) core characters.  Anyways, were I to rank the six films, it'd probably be something like this:

 

1) The Empire Strikes Back - 4 Stars-out-of-5

2) A New Hope - 3 1/2 Stars

3) Return of the Jedi - 3 1/2 Stars

4) Revenge of the Sith - 2 1/2 Stars

5) Attack of the Clones - 2 Stars

6) The Phantom Menace - 2 Stars

 

I fully expect the new one to rank at least third or fourth with me.

 

Some speculation on the new one:  I think Rey (female co-lead) and/or Kylo Ren (villain) will prove to be Luke Skywalker's kid(s).  Though the structure of TFA will probably most resemble A New Hope, you've got to figure they'll incorporate some notable elements of the other two Original Trilogy films into the mix.  I also think they'll probably kill one of the original three characters (Luke, Leia, or Han) in the second installment, but they won't do it with the first one, because they won't risk upsetting the hardcore fans too early.

 

Anyways, though it's not a reflection of the actual quality of the film, I'll be curious to see if this earns more money than Avatar.  You'd think it'd have the same level of international appeal, plus it has a built-in audience of nearly 40 years, but we'll have to see how it all shakes out.  Might not set the opening weekend record, though, as December releases often don't perform as well in that regard.  Avatar only opened at $75 million, and the December record is, I believe, $84 million, set by the first Hobbit movie.  Jurassic World topped the first Avengers this past summer with $208 million (!)

 

On a side note, I heard that Disney is pressuring the ArcLight Cinerama Dome in Hollywood to put Stars Wars on the screen instead of the 70mm Roadshow version of The Hateful Eight (which is contracted to be there, beginning December 25th), or they'll pull The Force Awakens from the entire ArcLight chain.  What a bully tactic that is.  What, Disney, you don't have enough screens, so you've got to take one of the few that can actually offer 70mm film projection to accommodate that film?


Edited by J.C., 16 December 2015 - 11:30 PM.


#8 JellyRoll Baker

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 03:50 AM

It premièred here last night but I haven't seen it yet because Real Life.

 

Anyhoo, there's lots that's wrong with the prequels and special editions and shit and it's mostly not CGI or shit like that.  It's that they don't get why the originals are awesome.  They're simple stories, the kind we've heard a thousand times before, cowboys and air fighters and Robin goddam Hood, only made better with fucking SPACESHIPS and goddam LASER SWORDS.  It's when the prequels (and EU and all that crap) try to fill in the gaps that they weaken what's actually a really solid story on a narrative level.  The detail is sometimes missing because, fuck it, we don't need it to tell the story so putting it in's just a distraction.

 

Anyhow, I've been told that this new one is a simple story only with spaceships and laser swords but I reckon I'll enjoy it.  So I reckon it'll be fun but I also enjoy The Last Starfighter so my opinion probably doesn't count for much.



#9 billdore

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 07:32 AM

Well, I'm a pretty huge SW fan; I plan to see it Friday morning.  Here's what I think some of the basic character/story stuff will be in the new movie.  I'll post it all in a spoiler tag, so read at your own risk (depending on how right I end up being, of course!):

 

Spoiler


Edited by billdore, 17 December 2015 - 07:54 AM.


#10 J.C.

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 05:20 PM

I think you may be correct, with regards to #1, and #3 is entirely plausible.  Re #6, I think the creators of the movies want the audience to suspect that he's evil, but he'll end up being a more run down version of his old self.



#11 billdore

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Posted 17 December 2015 - 09:11 PM

Just secured a ticket for tomorrow morning!  :)



#12 J.C.

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 12:30 AM

You locked it in your heavily armoured safe?



#13 imbenurnot

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 08:24 AM

I'll be watching in two hours! I've been avoiding all comment sections like the plague.



#14 billdore

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 01:36 PM

Just got back!  I won't say anything, besides "it's very good!"



#15 The Crawling KingSnake

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 02:15 PM

Seeing it at 4:45 TODAY. Nice to see all the positive reviews!!

#16 imbenurnot

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 03:57 PM

I am quite happy. I really like the new characters.



#17 JellyRoll Baker

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Posted 18 December 2015 - 04:25 PM

Um ... wow.  I'm surprised how neutral I am now that I've seen it.


I mean, I don't have that bitter taste in my mouth that the prequels gave me.

 

But I'm not thrilled or excited or anything.  I'm glad I saw it but if I don't watch it again I won't mind.

 

To put it in musical terms it was like those Greatest Hits albums with one new track tacked on the end.



#18 The Crawling KingSnake

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Posted 19 December 2015 - 02:22 PM

I really liked it!  Had the perfect mix of new and nostalgia.  Much, much, much better than the prequels and a lot less use of CGI, which made it feel like a true continuation of the series.



#19 billdore

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 05:50 PM

what do you think?  how long should we wait before talking openly and not worrying about spoiler stuff?



#20 J.C.

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 07:32 PM

Just wait until Christmas Day.  If someone hasn't seen it by then, they're probably not paying attention to this thread, or probably don't care about Star Wars anyways.  I hope to see it in the next three days.






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